【筑龙建筑师专访】Peter Goldsmith：建筑的适应力和变化力

摘要：近期，赫斯科建筑设计咨询有限公司中国区董事长Peter Goldsmith接受了筑龙网专访。

近期，赫斯科建筑设计咨询有限公司中国区董事长Peter Goldsmith接受了筑龙网专访。作为一家成立了40多年的英国建筑设计公司，赫斯科以设计城市综合体见长，进入中国市场仅四年，就设计了哈尔滨哈西万达广场、广州增城万达广场、长春万达广场等一批优秀的城市综合体项目。

以下为采访内容。

Peter Goldsmith：赫斯科建筑设计咨询有限公司中国区董事长

筑龙网：城市化的快速进程为购物中心市场带来了蓬勃的生机。中国市场上对购物中心和商业综合体的需求急速增加，这对您的公司来说意味着什么呢? 您如何评价中国市场？
Peter Goldsmith（以下简称Peter）：我们的经验比以往任何时候都更能与当前中国的城市化进程联系紧密。 这包括大型新建项目和现存商业体的改造。中国这一独特且令人激动的市场正沿着一条稳定的曲线发展，而我们正紧紧跟随着这条曲线。

筑龙网：目前市场上有这样的说法：一线城市的购物中心已接近饱和，但中小城市又无法消化大型购物中心。您对此怎么看？大城市和二三线城市的购物中心有区别吗？
Peter ：尽管一些一线城市的商业零售体在空间上已接近饱和，但这并不代表这些空间的布局和设计能正确满足城市长期发展的需求，北京正是这样一个例子。随着一二线城市的未来发展，仍存在着巨大的机会，将那些更加复杂与精巧的设计付诸实践。
对中小型城市来说，其正在经历巨大的人口增长和消费能力的提升，本地却没有能胜任其城市功能的城市综合体和商业购物中心。这里蕴含着巨大的商机，需要开发商与有决心的当地政府一起合作，委任最好的商业设计团队设计出融合当地社会、环境和经济条件的作品。而非仅设计出吸引眼球的“标志性纪念性建筑”，却在业态方面没有贴合实际，无法满足本地人民的购物需求。

赫斯科设计、刚刚落成的长春万达广场

筑龙网：中国的购物中心与西方的有什么不同？来自于中国开发商和中国消费者的哪些因素会影响您的设计？

Peter ：消费是一项全球性的行为，中国和西方的消费者在许多方面都有相似之处，因此在中国购物中心设计的基本原则与西方相同。最主要的不同点是美食广场在中国更具影响力，因此我们会把美食广场的设计比重加大，这一区域的租金价格也更与零售区域相持平。

中国的购物中心不仅需要迎合高端国际化品牌，也要满足本地的小型独立品牌的需求。如何将两者的需求结合在一起，协调彼此之间的关系并非易事，而两者之间的关系也将发生根本性转变。零售业在未来的发展趋势，以及中国的特殊地位都是振奋人心的话题。对中国的消费者来说，品牌标签的重要性远比在西方重要的多。与此同时，中国拥有世界上最大的新兴市场，拥有大批崛起的本地零售商，他们有着创新的理念和成功的驱动力，也在市场上占据了相当大的比例。我非常期望看到我们的设计项目能够为两者提供良好的平台。因为购物体验不仅是一种休闲方式，除了简单的购买物品以外，它更是一种多样化丰富性的体验经历。

筑龙网：您能跟我们谈谈您对中国购物中心和综合体建筑的期望吗？
Peter ：我在前面谈及过这个问题，单纯的单体式购物中心终将会消失，转而被真正的有更广泛功能的综合体建筑所取代。想让项目获得成功，设计者应该充分有效的进行综合，并且为将来的变化性提供预留。我们不仅需要建筑和空间的独特性，也需要建筑和空间具有适应和变化能力，以使其用途和功能得到更好的发挥。怎样把这两者更好的融合在一起是对建筑师最大的挑战，它要求建筑师对于当地环境有很好的理解与反应，同时对商业设计基本原则有着更深的思考。

筑龙网：您怎样看待当地建筑设计公司与国外公司之间的竞争？
Peter ：坦白来讲，我们的主要竞争对手主要来自其他国外的设计公司，但我们也会由于在竞标价格上的劣势而输给当地的设计公司，尤其当我们面对来自经济欠发达省份或非主要城市的项目时，这种情况更加普遍。

我觉得未来竞争将会在两方面发生变化：
首先，随着地产业价值的增长，我们的设计经验和能力将会得到更广泛的认可，获得更高的价值，开发商之间的竞争力也会增加，市场对经验需求的成熟度也就越高。届时将会是优胜劣汰。
其次，中国本土建筑设计公司的设计质量正在逐步提高，但是这需要时间，而且也依赖于中国国内 整体建筑师培训领域的提升。目前许多优秀的国内建筑师事务所都是由具有海外学习经历的中国建筑师创办的。随着中国教育和创新思想的提升，国内将会有一批富有才华的建筑师成长起来，届时我们将会面对来自当地公司的竞争与挑战，但我想这还需要5年左右的时间。

Zhulong.com：The fast pace of urbanization has created a booming market for shopping centers. What does China‘s soaring demand for shopping centers and mixed use compounds mean to your firm? How do you think of the market here?

Peter Goldsmith（Peter for short） ：Our experience is more relevant now than at any other time to the present urbanization of China. This includes large scale new build projects and remodeling of existing commercial developments that are in premier locations but in need of radical improvement. China is a unique and exciting market on a very steady growth curve and we are following that curve.

Zhulong.com：Some have argued that in tier one cities that shopping centers are near saturation. But smaller cities might not be able to digest large size shopping centers. What are your views on this? Does it make a difference of designing buildings for big cities and second or third tier cities?

Peter ：Although some 1st tier cities are near saturation in the capacity of retail space it doesn’t mean that the format and design of this space is correct or will meet the long term needs of that city, Beijing is a case in point.
I think there remains huge opportunity for future development in the 1st and 2nd tier cities for more sophisticated and carefully thought out design.

For smaller cities, these are still undergoing tremendous growth in population and spending power and for many they have very little, if any effective city centre mixed use and commercial/shopping development. I think there is huge opportunity here, the challenge is that private developers in partnership with ambitious local government take their opportunity to commission the best quality commercial designers that understand the social, environmental and economic issues and design accordingly, rather than simply designing eye catching ‘iconic’ monuments that fail to function properly or serve the needs of the people.

Zhulong.com：What are the differences of Chinese shopping centers and those in western countries? What are the preferences from Chinese developers and Chinese shoppers that might have shaped your designs here?

Peter ：Shopping is a global thing and Chinese shoppers have many similarities to western shoppers therefore many of the basic principles of the shopping centers that we design for China are the same. However one of the main differences is the strength of F & B which is far greater in China and therefore we always have a higher percentage of restaurant space and the rental levels for this space are more equal with the shop space.

In China we generally have to cater for the high end international brands as well as the smaller local independent traders. How we mix these and the relationship between them is complex. I also think that the importance of one to the other will radically change. This for me is an exciting question regarding where retailing is going in the future and is where China has a unique position. The reason being that for the Chinese shopper the ‘brand label’ assumes an even greater importance than for a shopper from the west, but also China has one of the largest markets for emerging independent local retailers with new ideas and a drive to succeed. I would always love to see our projects provide a platform for both because the shopping experience is a leisure experience and is more about the diversity and richness of experience than it is about simply making a purchase.

Zhulong.com：Would you please share with us your expectations towards Chinese shopping center and mixed use buildings?

Peter ：I have touched on this earlier but I expect shopping centers as isolated entities to die and be replaced by truly mixed use development that includes an ever widening mix of uses. For projects to succeed they then need to blend this mix most effectively and also allow for future change. We need buildings and spaces that have a uniqueness of character but also an ability to adapt and be put to changes of use and function. To provide these 2 things together is the greatest challenge to the architect and requires an understanding and response to the local context and a wider understanding of the basic principles of commercial design.

Zhulong.com：How do you view the competition between local architect firms and foreign firms?

Peter ：To be completely honest, currently our competition for design expertise and relevant experience only comes from other foreign companies, however we often lose a commission to a local firm on the basis of their lower fee bid. This is an even more common pattern when we pitch for projects in the poorer provinces or lower tier cities.

I see our future competition changing in two ways:

Firstly, our level of experience and ability is being more widely appreciated and valued and as real estate values grow, competition for development grows and the market matures the necessity for this experience will also grow. As will the ability to afford it.

Secondly, the quality of local architectural companies is improving but this will take some time and is dependent ultimately with the improvement of architectural training here in China. Currently many of the very good local companies are founded by Chinese architects that have had some architectural education overseas. As education, and the place for creative thought gets stronger in China, (both at university architectural education level and at school level) then home grown talent will come through and we will begin to get competition from local companies. I think this may take another 5 years or so.